How do you answer?

[Erica Stone]

So this has happened to me lately and I just haven't figured out the right wording...

It is obvious now to strangers that I am pregnant. At work (a small boutique - women's clothing and bridal) a few times people have asked me, "So is this your first pregnancy/baby?" I don't want to get into a whole big thing with someone I don't know, but I don't want to ignore that I had Matthew. I have said, "It's my second pregnancy", but it doesn't feel like that's what I really wnat to say. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Cheryl Haggard]

Erica,

Great topic...

There will always be days when people ask you, "Is this your first?" And after your new baby is born, "Is HE your only one?" After Maddux died, I was so adament on saying 4 when people asked me how many children I had. Then the story goes on to... "Oh, how old are they?" Then that brought up awhole new ballgame. There are days when I can say, "Chase is 12, Anna is 9, Natalie is 6, and we lost our fourth, Maddux, when he was 6 days old."

This recently happened to me when Natalie was at a birthday party. One of the fathers I was talking with, asked me if I had other children. I went on to say yes, Chase and Anna. Then he said, Natalie is the youngest? No, I said. We had a son born last year in February, and lost him at 6 days. Simply said. No tears. He said he was sorry for our loss, and I said thank you. Move on...

Now, don't get me wrong. There are the days, depending on my mood, depending on who I am talking to, depending on the situation, that I will leave Maddux off. This is mostly done to strangers, (or annoying sales clerks in small boutiques) LOL... But people that I do know, or just associate with through my community, get the "Maddux mention." And it's ok to do that.

Do not feel guilty if you do not feel like mentioning Matthew to every Tom or Jane that you come in contact with. It took me awhile to get to this point. I guess this would be a step toward healing. Matthew knows, that his mommy and daddy, and all of us who love him, will NEVER forget about him.

Talk soon?:rolleyes:

[Tammy]

:) I like that... the "Matthew attention" or the "Maddux attention". I agree only the people you know should have the priviledge of that information. But then again, you never know who you run into in public. If you share your story, you may run into another parent who has been through a loss, and they may share their story. Maybe they were not given the opportunity to grieve at that time, and it would open up an invitation for them to visit us here. On the flip side, there's that feeling of guilt for not mentioning ALL your children. I can relate to that.

There is nothing wrong with saying this is your second pregnancy. If asked the age of Matthew, a simple statement like Matthew was stillborn or born still, or our first son was stillborn (born still) what ever you feel comfortable with.

Congratulations by the way Erica! You are feeling good and doing well?:)

[Jen Eagan]

I agree with what Cheryl said. Hannah was our first, so when I was pregnant with Kayla and overly paranoid about EVERYTHING- I got a lot of "is this your first baby" like only first time moms have the right to be nervous, or like all 2nd and third time moms are just cool cucumbers. I remember one time, about 7 or 8 months pregnant with Kayla and I went to the hospital for severe cramping and I thought I was leaking. This nurse just treated me like a baby and said in this really condescending tone "is this your first baby". I got really bitchy with her and just snapped back "no, my first baby DIED, so I think I have a RIGHT to be a little PARANOID!". She was a little more understanding after that. It was harder before I got pregnant with Kayla though- because we had secondary infertility after Hannah, so everytime people would ask if we had any kids I felt like I HAD to tell them, because to say no was to deny her and I couldn't do that. But then I'd get the sympathy stare and to this day I LOATHE the sympathy stare. I would rather have uncomfortable silence than the sympathy stare. Oh- tangent, sorry. Anyway, back to the topic, last year was my 10 year HS reunion and at the dinner they gave out awards for stuff like married longest, traveled to most countries, most kids. I won for most kids- and I told them four. Thankfully they didn't ask me their ages at the dinner because I would have been in front of about 200 people having to explain that. Talk about the sympathy stare. Jeez. Anyway- the next day we were at this family picnic and thankfully only a few people showed up to that, so though I did get a little bit of "where's your fourth", it was more one on one so I didn't have trouble explaining it then.

Similarly- we have moved a LOT so my medical records are all over the place- and last summer I had a miscarriage. My third miscarriage, I think. First one before Hannah, 2nd one between Hannah and Kayla, then 3 kids, and then one more last summer. So- when I'm in the hospital answering questions, one of the regular ones they ask is "what number pregnancy is this?" Uh- SEVEN. "And how many children do you have?" Well, I have had four live births but have three children now because... and have to explain that- and then have to go into the miscarriages. Yes, our stories are definitely out of the little box that most peoples lives fit in, and I'm still working on the fact that most people that still live IN the box- have no clue what the world is like OUTSIDE that box.

Anyway- speaking of my 3 kids- it's time to wake up one from her nap and go grab the other two at school! :)

[Megan Kitchin]

Prior to being pregnant with Graham, if asked, I would say that I have two sons in Heaven. While pregnant, if people asked if this was our first I would say no, but we hope to bring this one home. Or after we were past the 23 week mark where I had the twins, I might say the first we have gotten this far. Now, that Graham is here, I usually say 3 boys. When I am out with Graham and am asked if he is our first, it depends on my mood and the vibe I get from who is asking. Sometimes I say the first we brought home, or he has two brothers in Heaven.

This is a great topic and one I have personally struggled with. I guess for me, I just spurt it out. Unless it is a complete stranger and I don't feel like they need to know my personal business. I am proud of having 3 sons and all 3 are blessings.

I am with Jen in the fact that I have been asked repeatedly after the years about how many pregnancies and how many live births. For me I had 3 miscarriages, 1 ectopic, the twins born premature at 23 weeks and now Graham. Talk about confused/sorry for you looks. And as I have moved a lot, as well, my medical records are everywhere. To be asked these questions repeatedly is so tiring. You sort of get numb to the questions about how many kids you have.

Before I was pregnant with Graham, I was quite sensitive to other woman talking about their kids and pregnancies, etc. Or others asking woman about their kids. Two examples... The first was when I was in a group of woman whom I had just met and they were talking about kids (introducing themselves) and when asked I was honest and said that I had twin sons, but they were born premature and died. They all asked questions, etc. and all but one was very responsive and inclusive. Then later they were showing photos of their kids and I asked if they wanted to see my sons (I have wallet sized photos in my purse). Let me say that I felt very comfortable with these woman and was quite impressed that they all asked to see the photo.

The second example is when an in-law of my cousin asked my sister about her twin sons (who were at the time running in circles around the house) and kept going on about how special it must be to have twins. Sitting right there, I felt horrible. My family who all knew I had just lost twin sons just looked at me. In that case, I just kept quiet. Although I was hurting inside, it wasn't my place to draw attention. My sister kindly mentionned at some point to this in-law that I also had twins that had died at birth. Then everyone talked about the twins in or family, including Grayson and Zane.

I have rambled, but I too agree that it is case by case. And what you feel comfortable with. My mom's cousin whose son died like 29 years ago now, has always said, "She was/is raised as an only child" when asked whether her daughter was an only child. She still says it to this day. She told me to her, she is not going into the details of Ben's death, but also is not leaving him out.

Another topic would be, what do your relatives (parents in particular) say when asked how many grandchildren they have. This is a big issue for me. My mom has 5 grandsons (including Zane and Grayson). She tells everyone, even family, that she has 3.

[Scott Hays]

Megan, it's interesting you bring up what the grandparents say. My in-laws will always mention Lindsey, and always remember her on her birthday. My mom, although not mean hearted about it, has always treated matter of factly shortly after Lindsey's birth. This year my mom was out hear during Lindsey's birthday, and as always, I had bought roses, and my in-laws had sent a little gift, and my mom was in wonderment that we had done that. She had forgotten it was Lindeys birthday. That part didn't bother me because she is getting older, but it shocked me that she was amazed that they would send something in rememberence.
On the main topic, I'm proud of all of you for mentioning your children to others. I've started doing it with Lindsey when people ask. For me it feels good. Of course, I'm at the point, and am just honery enough to want them to give me one of those looks, or to say something stupid. I have tact, but sometimes I swear I don't want to use it. I will use my better judgement though, and will use that tact...I guess.
Keep doing what feels right at the moment. I think that's the best you can do.

[Erica Stone]

It all brings up a conflict of sorts in my mind - let me explain.

After everything had gone so horribly wrong and I was realizing all that we were having to go through and deal with, there were so many people who were treating me with kid gloves (if you know what I mean). All I could think about was how SAD this was, and I wanted everyone to know how bad I felt - as if anyone could. I didn't realize at the time, but it was so helpful for me when someone finally did ask questions. Each time I relayed the story it was a little bit easier. I generally give information on a need to know basis, so I'm conflicted about my opposing points of view.

I've been wondering about the grandparent thing as well, since my sister in law had a baby in October. They are very sensitive about Matthew and talk about him, but I don't know what they say to other people. My parents have had a harder time and haven't mentioned him unless I do first. I think my mother is afraid of upsetting me, even though I know she thinks about it all the time.

I know what you mean, Scott - I've really had to bite my tongue a couple of times when people have said to me "Oh just relax, everything will be fine this time." Shut up, you idiot!!

[Cheryl Haggard]

Erica-Are you calling me an idiot???LOL:p

[Megan Kitchin]

Oh my gosh, Erica! It is so true. So many people say that. While pregnant with Graham, I so wanted to just scream that it might not be ok this time and I have to be able to deal with it if it's not! Also, until you bring your baby home, you will be scared silly that it could happen again. Well, atleast I was. I am still neurotic that something is going to happen to him.

Scott, Craig's family is like your mom. They don't really see that there is anything to talk about or would not even consider celebrating the boys' birthday, etc... My mom does not tell others she has 5 grandsons, but I truely feel she does in her heart. She has photos of them around her house and sent a card for their birthday last year. It just so drives me crazy that she can not acknowledge them to others. The worst part is when she says it in front of me (that she has 3 grandchildren) and then looks at me, knowing darn well she should have said 5. If I can tell others and answer questions, why in the World can't she? I know that is a question for her. I actually have asked and she says she just doesn't want to share them with others. It is her right, but it still hurts.

[Deb Stoner]

one grandparent--who shall remain nameless--suggested to us only 2 days after Marah died that "Maybe you should just get a puppy." My mother does not mention Marah in her listing of grandkids, although I know she thinks about her. uuugghh..

[Scott Hays]

Before Lindsey was born, Lisa had made some cross stitch "samplers" (for lack of what else to call them) that had the names of all the grand childrens names and dates of birth on them. When Lindsey was born, Lisa added Lindsey's name to both my mom's and her mom's. Lisa's mom was anxious to have her added, my mom was more of, oh, that's nice. I think it's more a matter of mom just doesn't deal with grief well. When my brother died, I don't think she ever shed a tear. She is from that "stoic" age. I hate that about her. Show some emotion for cryin out loud.

Sorry, just realized I got off task here. I think if you talk about the kids to your parents more, the more they feel comfortable with it. If not, well, they are our children, and we need the right to talk about them whenever we feel the need to, regardless of how our parents feel about it. THat sure sounded selfish didn't it? I'm in that mood today. Has anyone ever corrected their parents when they reply as to how many grandchildren they have without including all your children? Ok, it wouldn't be very nice. Maybe you could do it after the fact. Reminding them that all your children ARE her grandchildren.

[Cheryl Haggard]

Grandparents...That's a whole other subject matter...(What I just wrote...Is that proper english grammar???) My mom was here when Maddux was born, just like with all my kids. But when his birth took the turn for the worst, I didn't want anyone here. I really wanted my mother to leave. (I put on the very STRONG face, and honestly do not like to show any weakness.) I wanted my family to be by ourselves. I asked that NO family come. I finally gave in, and accepted my brothers help a few weeks later. Oh, of course I received cards from all the grandparents, saying how sorry they were. My dad and I are not close at all, and after bringing him to the website, all he kept saying was "How Sad..." Of course losing a baby is sad, but I think what really upset me, was that, I didn't want people to go to the website, and think how sad this all is...I want people to go the the site, and say, "Look at the beauty of all the babies, and look at what the parents have in memory of their babies." Getting past the saddness...Does that make sense?

Now, I do not know what my father (My mom and dad are divorced) says about his grandchildren. Or what Mike's parents say about their grandchildren. I do know that my mother recently had Maddux's name embroired on the blanket I gave her a few years back with all the grand childrens names on it.

I also know, that only my mother, brother and several of my friends (including Deb, Tammy, Erica, Sandy, Chantel, Erin and Wendy) ((And several photographers on the NILMDTS site))acknowledged Maddux's birthday. (more so, just letting us know that they thinking about me and my family-) Oh-my dad sent me an email on the date of his death, letting me know that he was thinking of me...

[Jen Eagan]

I don't get any acknowledgements whatsoever on Hannah's birthday for the most part. Of course, even my husband doesn't mention it most years. I think last year my mom actually said "what day is Hannah's birthday again??" and she happened to be with us that day so she got to do the balloons with us. I still release balloons with my kids every year- each year we get the number of balloons of the age she would have turned. The kids love doing it, even though Kayla is the only one who even remotely understands who Hannah is. (CJ just thinks she's a baby on our wall, and now that he has a Hannah in his class at school he came home and said "Hannah isn't a baby anymore").
Anyway- I don't know what my dad or in-laws say either. My dad probably honestly doesn't know how many grandkids he has- and my sister lost a baby too. I think he has 12 including Hannah and Jacob (sister's baby)- but if someone asks him he just says "too many to count" or "a bunch". And that's fine because that's just him. My in-laws have five including Hannah- but I don't know if they say four or five. My father-in-law probably says four, and I am pretty sure my mother-in-law does tell lots of people about Hannah. Not sure if she says she has four or five grandkids though. Interesting topic.

[Erica Stone]

Oh my god, Cheryl! Did you say that to me? (if you did I had no idea...) :o

Megan, it's exactly how I feel - I will be nervous about this and any other pregnancy I have because I know that it's not as simple as everyone pretends. So many things can and do go wrong all the time.

Maybe it's different for the grandparents since they're a step removed from the situation. They don't live with it the same way we all do, so I assume they don't think about our losses the same way. My dad doesn't emote much in general, and my mom has the duality of being a sunny positive talker while worrying so much it keeps her up at night.

Deb, I'm curious to know your reply to the puppy suggestion...

[Jen Eagan]

Deb, I'm curious to know your reply to the puppy suggestion...

I'm thinking a good punch in the throat would be a reaction I'd have to resist there...


Also, on the same topic as worrying about our pregnancies- does everyone else with other kids feel MORE paranoid constantly about your other kids too? I get accused of being way too overprotective of my kids. My son is actually in special education preschool now because I have sheltered him so much that he has not developed to where a "normal" four year old boy should be. I try not to worry but when I was 5 I was walking 2 blocks to my friend's houses, and I won't let my daughter walk across the street (thankfully we live on a cul de sac so I can just make her go around). I have no experience in parenting before Hannah, so I don't know if I would have been this way had she been my last instead of my first, know what I mean? I just have this crippling fear of something bad happening to my kids, I guess because I know I'm not invinceable anymore.

[Cheryl Haggard]

Erica, of course I was just teasing you. :D
I was waiting for your response...:p

The puppy issue is quite interesting. I got a puppy in June. We had 2 daschunds. Mieka was 13 and Alex was 14 or 15. The end or March -Mieka was attacked by a wolf-(everyone else says a coyote) But I swear this thing looked like a wolf. Anyway-husband out of town-just got back from Florida-gotta put the dog down. Very traumatic. Then we got Baxter-8weeks old-Bernese Mountain dog. Then in September, Alex got left outside (don't ask me how) when I was taking the girls to Cheerleading. Well - long story short-found him the next morning in the meadow. He had been attacked-but not eaten. Does an animal kill just to kill? Or could it have been that he had cancer, and the animal didn't like what he tasted like. (by the way-not a very beefy daschund.)
Anyway-what a year. Losing a baby, and then 2 family companions.

Here is the Christmas Photo I had planned to send to family and friends. Hate to say this-but never got around to doing it. All of my kids are pictured, including Maddux-(note the pooh bear) and dumb dog Baxter-6months old. Isn't he a beast?
This image is taken at Echo Lake on the way to Mount Evans...

[Jen Eagan]

Awww, sorry about your doggies too. We lost a kitty last March too- she got out and apparently fell onto a fence or something wierd and broke her back and we had to put her down.

We got a kitten after we got back to Iceland after Hannah died. She was my little companion so I wasn't completely alone when Pete went back to work. Nothing WRONG with getting a pet. But to be told "maybe you should just get a puppy"- OMG I would be so likely to fly off the handle and possibly require someone to restrain me.

Cute pup, Cheryl. Cute kids too. :)

[Cheryl Haggard]

Jen-Answering your question:



Does everyone else with other kids feel MORE paranoid constantly about your other kids too?


I am not paranoid about my kids. I take that back, to a certain extent I am paranoid about my kids. I am constantly worried about them getting hurt, but don't keep them from doing anything that they want to do (within reason...) I mostly worry about them when I am not with them. Example-Cheer competition a few weeks back-we all met between break for dinner at a restaurant away from the event. On the way back to the comp. both of my daughters wanted to ride with other people. I let them. They left maybe 10 minutes before I did, and on the way back there was an accident. Traffic is backed up like you wouldn't believe. I literally broke out into a cold sweat. Of course thinking that it was the car ONE of my daughters was riding in...

Another example, and my husband gets so mad at me still for this one: We were living in Florida and Chase was maybe 7, playing baseball. One of the morning shows aired a spot about alittle boy that was playing little league bball and got hit in the chest with the ball. He died. I just freaked. I wanted Chase to wear pads. Chase to this day still remembers that. Now mind you, Chase is an incredible baseball player, but could be an outstanding player if he wasn't always so timid of the ball.

Nobody can take better care of my kids, than me. And each of them is a very independent, take charge kind of person... My friend Wendy and I used to have very long discussions about this: She raises her kids to be dependent and I raise my kids to be independent.

I never want my kids to be afraid of life, and for that matter I don't want them to be afraid of death either. I want each of them to live life to the fullest.

Nobody can stop death. That is the one thing we all have in common. We are all going to die. How and when, that is not up to us. How we teach our children to live, is up to us.

But, still again, there is no right or wrong answer here. You have to do what you think is right for your child. You can't live by someone else's rules. You are your child's parent...;)

[Kirk Kief]

Then we got Baxter-8weeks old-Bernese Mountain dog.
Baxter is a sweetheart!

[Deb Stoner]

"Why don't you just get a puppy?" My response---I was in the midst of grief and just cried. If she would have said that now...well...I'm sure I couldn't legally post my response! That comment STILL eats at me!
I am only overprotective of my kids when they are not with me (I think). Like when they are riding with someone else or at the pool with a friend. It takes all I can do to let them go, but I know I have to if they are to have a normal life.

[Erica Stone]

Since I don't have other children (yet) I can't answer that. BUT, I have found that I am much jumpier and I startle so much easier than I ever did. It was really bad for the first few months, I think it was mostly shock. I still do it, although it's not as bad. I don't know if it will ever go away. As far as when this baby gets here, it's all up in the air!

[Megan Kitchin]

Erica, as you know, I didn't have any others until Graham was born. I felt the same way. Now that he is here, I am so worried something is going to happen. Many days, I am terrified that either he or Craig will get sick or worse. But I am trying to force myself not to let it impact him. He is only 10 weeks old now, but while I have the driving need to keep him close to me, I have been making the concious effort to offer him to others (close friends and family), or to go out to dinner with a friend (thanks, Deb!) and leave him with Craig. Sometimes I am worried I am going to make him affraid to do what he wants, because all of a sudden I am terrified to leave the house at times.

I am preparing myself now for when he is older. I don't want to hold him back from the joys and adventures of life. Yet, I think I wll always fear the worst and may have to really work at not letting him see that.

[Charlene Lopez]

This is a great topic Erica. I too answer "is this your first pregnancy" on a case-by-case basis. It depends on who and where. I like Meghan's answer "No, but we hope to bring this one home". Either way, Daniel is always in my heart. I figure some people are just luckier than others that I share him with them. Those people that I do share with always enjoy looking at his picture that I keep in my wallet. I had a great experience at a lunch meeting when I showed someone his picture and she said, "Oh Yeah, NILMDTS, I've heard of that". I was thrilled, it was the first person who told ME about it, not me telling them. I was very proud!

[Karla]

I agree with some of all that each of you have said. For me, it depends on the person, for strangers, the vibe you get, But sometimes I just want to shout out that I have two children, especially for those who deliberately choose to ignore that we had a baby, though not here now, but was a huge part of our lives. I am thinking now though that I want to say each time I am asked that I have two, one here with me and one in heaven looking over me. The grandparents thing really ticks me of, that's a sore point for me. I live with my motherinlaw, who did not even want me to have a baby, as if it was any of her business! She never told anyone she was having another grandchild, and now does not even mention her to anyone. That really hurts me. My daughter was/is a person. "A person is a person no matter how small they are"