Not sure where to put this?

[Darby]

I may go into a rambling, but I am looking for advice on this. Levi decided to open up a little today and told me that I needed to talk to him about Shaunna and that even though he cant understand it from a women's point of view he would try. So I took advantage of the situation. I was having a hard day. it seems as though everywhere I went today someone mentioned something about a pregnancy or a baby and then everyone would get silent and see that I was around and quickly change the dubject. Ahh how I hate this. Anyway, so I started telling him about that, and he just said "well people dont want to talk about it when your aorund." So I began to tell him that if he gets a chance ot tell them that I like talking about Shaunna, it helps me. Then the converstaion escalated, I was of course crying and he said he just wanted to help me. He wanted to see me move on. I told him I never will, I will live everyday trying to do something and anything for Shaunna. Then he told me that Shaunna wouldnt want me throwing my life away like I am :confused: I am so lost right now. Why would he say this? Is that what I am doing? Am I truly throwing my life away just becuase I cant seem to be happy for a day straight? Men, if there are any of you lurking around, do you know what he means by this? Is that how you feel about your wives sometimes..

I am so lost..

[Bill Tilton]

Darby,

I don't think there are any simple answers to this. That's why this forum exists, to work through some of these issues.

Levi used the words "moving on" and I think that has some merit, if we define what we mean. I don't agree that moving on means forgetting about Shaunna and no longer mourning your loss. But I don't think that it should be your sole focus for the rest of your life and that no happiness should ever creep in.

When you have recently experienced a tragic loss like this, your emotional tank has been drained almost to empty. That's pretty normal. But I think Levi is talking about putting some effort into searching for happy moments and putting things more in balance. The balance won't be the same as it was before. But it doesn't mean running on empty permanently either. You have another important relationship to focus on — you and Levi. That will need continuing attention too. How will focusing 100% of your attention and grief on Shauna for the rest of your life benefit any one — you, Levi, Shaunna?

"People don't understand" — that's a pretty common theme in the forum. The feeling is that others should change, become more sensitive. But think about this. How sensitive have you been to the emotional pain suffered by others? How about the war vet who can't talk about the unspeakable things he's seen. How about the teenager who is contemplating suicide? How about the aging adult who feels ever more isolated as they grow older? If we were suddenly to become sensitive to all the emotional pain around us, I think we would become overloaded. Hopefully, you will find a few close friends that you can share with and who will be sensitive to your pain. But expecting a change in most of the people you interact with is unlikely, I think. It's human nature to shy away from things that make others uncomfortable. Those well-meaning friends are trying to spare you the pain of discussing uncomfortable topics. And they will continue doing that unless you educate them differently. Perhaps you can initiate a discussion on a one-to-one basis to let them know how you feel.

[Madge]

He wanted to see me move on. I told him I never will, I will live everyday trying to do something and anything for Shaunna. Then he told me that Shaunna wouldnt want me throwing my life away like I am :confused: I am so lost right now. Why would he say this? Is that what I am doing?

I am not a man, but I've come to understand my man over the last 20+ years. If I put myself and my dh in the conversation that you shared, I can understand what MY dh would be saying:

*I love you.
*I know you are extremely sad, and that is okay.
*I don't like seeing you in pain.
*I want you to embrace the life we STILL have, even though we don't have Shaunna here (on earth) to share it with us. Her memory can be a part of our lives, but not the main focus at all times--but the memoryWILL always be there.

As women, our hearts are more tender and we will show our tenderness more openly. Our dh's are tender also, but tend to be more practical because that is the way they are wired--so they feel the pain, but have to move on to function in life. They feel the need to be the strong one so we (the women) can be a bit weaker and fall apart when we feel the pain--but they still have the strength to hold us up and keep going.

What Bill shared about people not understanding is true. I've been on the "other side" with two relatives who suffered losses of their young children. I took the cues from the parents--if they didn't bring up their child, I didn't talk about him either. If they talked freely, I joined in the best I could. One set of parents became very bitter because they didn't bring up their son's name, and it was rare that anybody else did either---so they got mad at all of us for not being sensitive. But we thought we WERE being sensitive. It's simply a hard situation!

I can't recall your situation, but maybe you can set up a time each month that you and Levi do something in honor/memory of Shaunna? Go to her gravesite (if you have one), or just do something a little special to open up the communication. It is something you can share with friends and relatives, too. I will share that having a 'Dekar Day' is very healing/comforting to me. It invites the rest of my family "IN" to his memory. It is something that I can look forward to every month. It is a time we can talk freely about Dekar and it's not awkward or uncomfortable. Maybe you and Levi can come up with something together (but if it were me, I'd have a few ideas in mind and see which one he likes) along the same lines?

When my nephew died, it was the mother who struggled because my brother took his death extremely hard and he needed to take extra time off work because he simply couldn't function well enough at his job. I remember her saying, "I don't understand why he can't move on. I already have and I'm his mother!" That really took me by surprise--because she didn't appear to be very sensitive to my brother's feelings. At the same time, I now understand that she NEEDED him to "move on" a bit more for HER own sake. It wasn't being selfish or insensitive, really--it was just part of their journey at the time and the need that she felt to at least be in the same place as her spouse.

You still have the right to grieve how you need to. I had hoped that my dh would go to counseling sessions with me (hospice) but he made it clear in a gentle way that he's not interested. I have to accept that and also accept that he grieves in his own way. A man and woman have to come together somehow in the grieving process--and that is not always an easy situation.

I'm glad you posted this. And I do hope that you and Levi keep the lines of communication open.

[motherofthree]

Darby, I am sure Levi is coming from the right "place" with his advice....I am glad that you guys are talking. I am sure what he meant was that the sole focus of your day every day shouldn't be Shaunna...but right now, so early in your loss, I'm sure that's most of what you think about. And that is perfectly normal at this point. However, I do make a point out of thinking of and trying to take a moment of reflection and remembrance every day. Sometimes my mind is full of her, and sometimes I have to make myself stop and take a moment...but either way, there's nothing wrong with remembering her every day. Yes, in the sense that "moving on" could be considered healing and letting yourself continue to live a life, it's a reasonable expectation. Make sure he knows that that is what you are working towards, too...but make sure he knows that Shaunna will be a part of your life whether she is on this earth or not. It is possible that it hurts Levi to see you in pain, and he's anxious for you to get past that; but ask him for patience.

[Marcus Momma]

I believe thats alot of what u will think about daily is your daughter until more time passes. I did it took 2 months for me to be able to say his name or talk about him without crying. The day will come sometime that life before your loss will creep back in and you can start focusing on that easier but not until u have healed some from the raw pain that u are still experiencing right now. We are here for you. I don't think men know what to say maybe he meant he wants to see you happy again and not all sad all the time. But that time will come where u are thinking about good memories of shauna and not all the sad ones.

[momma to 2+ an angel]

It is so hard because even though we feel so connected and close to our partners, we are all so different and have different steps for dealing with things in life.

After having Cameron, Bob and I went out for a "date night". I mentioned something about it being nice to not be sitting at home crying... and he said, "yeah, you have done more than enough of that". The way I took it at first is that he was such an insensitive jerk, I hated him and wished he would disappear from my vision right that minute.

Now, that I am able to look back at it - I know he meant, please don't hurt anymore for something neither of us could change. I know he hurt too. I know he still does. Just the other night, he told me that he told somebody at work about Cameron. JUST THE OTHER NIGHT! It has been 6 mos. He has worked with this person everyday since, and he only just told this person the other night.

They have their way. All of us do. Just like Madge said about the mom feeling the need for the dad to move on... opposite way around but it happens! I think in the short time that we have been friends, I have gotten to know you and feel we share the same outlook on a lot of things...

Here is another example, today is 6 mos. I am sad and missing my baby a touch more than normal being an "anniversary" day but you know what? I bet Bob doesn't even realize - Can I be mad at him? Sure. But will it bring Cameron back? Will it make him grieve the way I am? No. Do I want him to? Nope. That's him. He thinks of him, I know he does. He just doesn't do it the way I do.

Sorry for the novel here... I just want you to know that you are not alone, Darby. I love you and I always want to hear about Shaunna.

One thing that I have learnt is that while others/outsiders may not understand, sometimes they understand more than the people that are closest to us do... Keep talking about Shaunna... Would you be interested in having a necklace done of her like the one I have of Cameron? Let me know and I will try to find out if there is somewhere local for you that does them - It is such a conversation piece.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/bettyboop414/100_1413b.jpg

Let's me talk about Cameron a lot actually! Take care - I hope some of what I said makes sense... darn post-surgery meds -- :)

[MamaBethany]

Darby,

2 months -- it was just a moment ago that Shaunna was here and left so quickly. We all grieve on a different time frame, unique to each of us. If you are already back to school, playing softball, making plans for the future such as college, I'd say you are doing very well at "moving on". Actually, I hate that phrase "moving on" -- I guess it's more like "living on", we are still living and now we have more to live for. I remember how confused I was when I started feeling happy again (about 5 months after Bethany died) -- then I started getting used to it. And it's okay to feel happy again, in fact it's wonderful. But it is an adjustment to feel both loss and joy at the same time.

I'm glad you and Levi are talking more. As understanding as some of the men in our lives are, I guess there's nobody who feels the loss of our little ones like the mommy does. I'm not comparing any man to any woman -- just saying it's different. Let Levi know the ways that you are continuing to live, but also that you have a real NEED to be Shaunna's mommy every day. Don't forget to let him know how he is helping you and how he can help you more. Sounds like you are doing that already.

I don't know if there's any wisdom here for you, just sharing some thoughts. :)

Lots of love
Jennifer

[Vicki]

Darby . . .

Part of what you are experiencing may be hormonal too. It has only been close to 2 months and your hormones may still be finding some balance. I would talk to your doctor about clinical depression compounded by emotional loss. There are many things you can do to help with depression that is chemical versus just emotional and emotional depression can certainly trigger a chemical depression.
As for "moving on" . . . we are all moving on every second we breathe. You aren't stuck in some limbo, you are just sad right now and it may take some time before you find one moment when you truly laugh again and when you finally do you'll probably feel guilty for being happy.
Happiness isn't something that is laying around on the ground or in a drawer that you can just pick up and carry, it's something that we make. So maybe you will only have 5 minutes of happiness a day and them it might be 10 and then 20 and so on until one day you realize that you still miss your daughter but that you found some happiness in the whole day.
Try to remember the things in the past that brought you joy . . . a beautiful sunset or a drive in the country, the sound of a stream in the forest, the sunlight through the trees. And just know that when you view those things that bring you the most joy and you feel that little stirring of happiness . . . it is your daughter calling your name.
Your daughter will be in every little thing that you do for the rest of your life and I think Levi just wants you to find the joy in all those little things so that you can hear Shaunna's laughter . . . and you will . . . don't be too hard on yourself for being sad right now. Give yourself permission to grieve and then give yourself permission to find joy and happiness again . . .
Hugs to you Darby . . . I wish you joy . . .

[Darby]

Thank you all so much. Reading these replies have given me some ideas to help. I mentioned to Levi about going out for a special date on the 30th of every month. At first of course he asked why, so I told him becuase it makes the anniversary of Shaunna's birth. He glady accepted and told me he will make reservations for Monday in honor of the 2 month mark. I guess it has just been really hard. I have talked to Levi a little about each one of you have shared and he gladly said thank you and he wants to make it an effort to understand where I am coming from, he said he wants to help. Things are slowly coming into place with us. everyday is a new challenge. I now know that I do need to focus on us more. I use to think it was all his fault, but I know know I had a big part in it. I wasn't talking to him about Shaunna, I didnt think he was interested. And I wasnt focusing on us anymore. I guess in my mind I was waiting for our relationship to die just as Shaunna did. I know realize this isnt what i want. Thank you again you guys. It means so much to me. Each and every word you guys shared hit me hard and real. Again, thank you.

[Hope]

Hi Darby-
Everyone had such good things to say there is really not much to add. You are absolutely NOT throwing your life away because you can't seem to be happy for a day straight right now. Your grief is SO fresh, SO raw at just 8 weeks since Shaunna died. Somehow, someway, find the strength to have some patience with Levi and to realize that he is only trying to help, he most likely feels helpless, he most likely wishes he could take all your pain away etc...Granted, I think what he said was not helpful to you and actually has brought you some additional pain. This will happen with well-meaning people here and there--things will be said that actually compound your grief when it is meant to help. After losing a precious baby most of us mothers find ourselves emotionally in a different world than we have ever known--and usually the only other people in that same world are other women who have also lost a child. Certainly you need to keep communicating as honestly as you can with Levi, but just know that you will most likely need to consistently give yourself the room and the right to grieve in your own way--no matter what anyone else says. As long as your grief is not harming yourself or someone else--by harm I don't mean just making them uncomfortable, it needs to be experienced. It is really hard to do, but after a loss of this magnitude we will often need to "let others off the hook" of really "getting it"--most people don't get it--even some people who have lost a child don't get it b/c they just cannot go there, cannot face the pain, and they compartmentalize etc... Also, most women are very emotional beings and most men just do not process information and feelings like women do. Levi's heart towards you sounds sincere and very caring--it just seems like you are bumping up against the differences in most men and women, as well as the differences in the grieving process.
I hope I made some sense!! :-) Take a deep breath Darby and know that all you are feeling is very normal. It is hellish to go down this road and I am so sorry you are going through this. Just know that in time the freshness of the grief will subside--the pain won't be as raw and as constantly overwhelming as it is now. There will always be pain though and this will always be something we carry with us with every breath. You will make it through this.
With Sincere Sympathy,