Topic of the day...

[Cheryl Haggard]

I suggest that you reconsider your selfish practice of sharing your grief with the other children in your family. My mother, a medical professional, never told any of her children that she was expecting another so that we would not be subjected to the trauma of having a sibling die. I am 55 years old, and I am most appreciative that my mother was considerate in sparing me that bad news during my childhood. As for preparing children for a new sibling, I never needed that. I always welcomed my younger siblings joyfully.



This is a message that was posted on our petition. The way I am perceiving this is that it is directed to us that have older children, and have experienced the death of a baby. I am confused...:confused:

How could I have hid a pregnancy from my older children? Do we just show up one day with a little baby to our home? When our children as where he came from, what should we say? "We found him under a rock, just like we did you..." or "The infamous stork dropped him off." My kids would really have to be stupid...And I can't even begin to imagine how messed up they would be when they grew up...

My thoughts: I am nine months pregnant. We are preparing our home for a new baby. We are decorating his room, buying the necessary gear. My children are going with us to our doctors appointments. Hearing his heartbeat, seeing his image in the ultrasounds. Feeling my tummy and his different body parts.

Day of delivery: I get my kids up and ready for school. I tell them that daddy will pick them up afterwards and bring them to the hospital to meet their new baby brother. I kiss them goodbye and tell them that mommy loves them...

After delivery: Something is terribly wrong. We have been told that our baby will not survive. We tell our children that mommy, daddy or all the doctors in the world will not be able to make him better. He will be going to Heaven on this night.

Here are my only options:

1.) Not let the children meet their baby brother. Let them think things in their minds. Have bad dreams. Think that their brother was some sort of monster baby that the hospital wouldn't let us bring home. Done.
2.) Let them say hello and goodbye all in an hours time. See their little brother. Hold him. Kiss his pretty head, hold his hand, tell him that they love him. Have a photograph with him to remember him by. See that he is just like them. Perfect in every way, and loved just as much as they are loved.
3.) Come home with no baby, and tell the kids, 'April fools!' or 'Just Joking. There really wasn't a baby. Mommy had a puppy instead...' or 'Had ya fooled...' or better yet...'Mommy was getting too fat from eating so much chocolate, so she had a tummy tuck...'

I picked #2. (my kids are too smart to fall for #3.)

My children haven't been the same, since Maddux died. None of us have. They are sensitive and caring. They are not harsh and do not judge anybody. My children are not sheltered. Death has touched our lives. They know how to grieve and they know how to smile.


We would not be subjected to the trauma of having a sibling die...
and I am most appreciative that my mother was considerate in sparing me that bad news during my childhood.

This is what is wrong. Nobody wants to talk about death. But guess what folks? We are all going to die someday. Babies, Children, Mommies, Daddies, Sisters, Brothers, Friends, Grandmas, Grandpas,Husbands and Wives...

Death has knocked on our door and literally 'rocked' our world...My children are not afraid of death, nor are they afraid to live. They know that there are mean people in this world. Mean physically, mentally and verbally. I think that is what scares them the most. The insensitivity. They have been asked the same questions we have all been asked. 'How many brothers and sisters do you have?' I have heard their reply. They all mention Maddux without blinking an eye. They get the uneasy looks, and the quick change to another topic. They have heard some of the comments, and seen how people look at you. They don't understand why. Why does it make other feel uncomfortable to talk about their brother? Why are they wrong for doing so...

Our children are going to grow up to be caring, sensitive and productive adults. They are going to be the change we see in the world. 'Sticks and stones can break your bones...' They will know that words CAN really hurt you.

[Jen Eagan]

I read this on the petition too and was really quite stunned. I'm not sure why she even signed it, it wasn't a debate board. It was hard for me not to sign it again just to tell her where she could stick it.

[Jessi Hill]

I totally agree Cheryl... I think the older kids need to know what the truth is about their sibling. I plan to tell my adopted daughter that she has a big brother watching over her from heaven. I think she deserves to know why he is no longer with us (the best I can explain anyway) and that he was here, he was a real person, and we love him too. Some people are so terribly uncomfortable with the thought of death that it is scary... let's face it, we cannot avoid it.

[Cheryl Haggard]

Jen-You are so funny. We already had to delete one signature. He was ranting and raving about George Bush...So totally NOT the topic OR cause...

Jessi-How much did Tristan weigh. In his photograph, he seems to have just the cutest and chubbiest cheeks...
I remember Eugene, Maddux's NICU nurse would always grab his little cheeks and call him his little chipmunk...I just thought of that when I looked at Tristan again...

[Tammy]

Wish there was a way to respond to this person... I'm not one to give a piece of my mind too often, but when I do... watch out...everything and everyone in my path had better clear out fast! LOL

Keep in mind, we have to expect responses such as this. What we are proposing to do, changing the way society responds to the death of a baby, it's going to take time, and there will be objections. As long as we stand together as an organization, (as a family) nothing or no one can touch us. We won't be able to change everyone's ignorant thinking, but it looks to me we have a good start. It's getting attention~ that's a huge first step.

[Cheryl Haggard]

If I had a glass in my hand-I'd raise it to you...Hang on, let me go and get one...

Here's to you Tammy, and beautiful baby Chase. And to all of us and all of our beautiful babies...And to all of the wonderful and incredible Photographers that make this organization possible...And to everyone who supports NILMDTS...
Here's to YOU!:D

[Tammy]

Cheryl,
what are ya drinkin? LOL I have a pepsi, so I need something stronger?? lololol

[Cheryl Haggard]

Carrot and apple juice-Yum yum!! I have started working out again, and lifting weights. Gotta stay healthy...

[Jessi Hill]

Jessi-How much did Tristan weigh. In his photograph, he seems to have just the cutest and chubbiest cheeks...
I remember Eugene, Maddux's NICU nurse would always grab his little cheeks and call him his little chipmunk...I just thought of that when I looked at Tristan again...3 Hours Ago 07:45 PM

Cheryl- Tristan was 4lbs. 12oz, but was around 8lbs when we lost him. He was quite large compared to the other NICU babies.
Our nurses called him a tree frog... hence my love for tree frogs. You know we had never seen one around our house til he passed, then we had one clinging to the side of our house by the door when we came home one night shortly after. I have also seen them on his grave several times. I think it is neat!
I can hardly believe it will be 3 years since he became an angel (this Sunday) I sure miss him, but I know his great grandma is up there giving him all my love (we lost her 2 mo ago) Sure miss her too!

[Art]

Cheryl, it's hard to write through the tears. I can't believe someone could be so sick as to write that; it's amazing how many maladjusted people there are in this world! What does she think death is? I lost my Dad at the age of six, and, like your children, our family was never the same. Some of my siblings changed in not-so-great ways; I became more sensitive and determined to carry on my father's name. I think that experiencing death is part of growing up, so we buy our children pets. Or they learn the true life experience the hard way... Death is the natural end of life; that woman can run, but she cannot hide...

[Wendy Armstrong]

I relate most closely to your scenario Cheryl, however, I grew up in a home that "didn't discuss" difficult topics ... previous marriages, divorces, babies that didn't live...

I've struggled to understand how "not discussing" these things makes sense, but can finally now accept that that just was the choice my parents made and that they probably were doing the best they could. They didn't have the support or acceptance or even the understanding to talk about things that weren't how they were supposed to be. I no longer fault them for this -- but instead, feel like I just need to hug them because I know they suffer underneath all of that "not discussing".

I'm not sure this makes sense, but I believe that when people don't know how to deal with something "unpleasant" or not expected sometimes their fear makes them avoid practically even acknowledging that life has disappointments and tragedies. In the face of difficult issues, avoidance or denial is their path of choice. :(

How sad to face loss without the ability to truly grieve and so avoiding the painful issues that you dont allow any support from your friends and family. The pain of a mother loosing a child and then having to put on a "happy face" for her family. I'm thinking this woman needs more hugs than the average person. kwim?

[HAINAngel2000]

Cheryl, We have come across this kind of attitude as well in our charity. Critizised for not forcusing on people older then the age that we do. I have come to realize that not everyone has the same heart I do and because they may not have gone through what I have they may not understand. Girl is using your grief to help others and keep your head up in knowing that many, many,many families need this Organization and need our love and comfort. We never hope this happens to someone else but if it ever did may they realize that this is why it is here.
I stand behind NILMDTS 100%. Love you all Mary

[S Jensen]

Aah, so I suppose that if someone loses a child to SIDS, they must suddenly force the children to go through hypnosis and never acknowledge that there had been a sibling because heaven forbid the children be subjected to that trauma. Quick, someone grab the paint and turn the nursery into an office while the kids are having their brains wiped clean. Mommy's fat (must have eaten a whole pumpkin) and suddenly she isn't, tummy tuck does sound like a good excuse only now the kids will have issues with weight from now on most likely. Never mind the fact that mommy might very likely go into severe depression that the kids will likely blame themselves for if they don't know the real reason behind it. Never mind that most kids are too smart to not notice the fact that mommy is having to get baby stuff, go to the doctor, and strangers are coming up to her patting her tummy asking when she's due.

Obviously this woman is working with two anti-social brain cells. My 2 1/2 year old knew what was going on when I was pregnant with my second, and even if he hadn't, he would have realized SOMETHING was happening since they admitted me the day before they induced me and everyone was so worried. Maybe the woman's mother would just take 9 month vacations for the children she had that lived? The kids felt lucky when mom only had to take a 4 month vacation or something?

Sorry for the sarcasm oozing through this message but that woman really needs some help! I'm so sorry that you got a message like that, it is really pathetic.

Sara

[Bill Tilton]

>>I suggest that you reconsider your selfish practice of sharing your grief with the other children in your family. <<

"I try to avoid mental combat with unarmed people!"

[Art]

Well put, Bill. Here's my version "Never have a battle of wits with an unarmed man".

[Dave Cisco]

>>I suggest that you reconsider your selfish practice of sharing your grief with the other children in your family. <<

You can't fix stupid, nor can you change a person's hardened attitude..people like her are just a waste of good time to even talk about.:)

[B Storm]

I often hear these statements from some of our family and friends. Aren't you over that baby yet? :( That situation you should just put behind you.(referring to our baby Sammy). These statements are so difficult to hear. It has only been six months since we have lost him. How could I ever forget about our beautiful baby boy. He was 20 and half inches long and 8 and half pounds. He was alive and well in my body for 38.5 weeks. Only five months since we miscarried. Good Lord! What are these people thinking! EEK! Another frustration of mine is that some of these same people fail to recognize that my husband and I have two children, not one. One is on earth and one is in heaven. Thanks for letting me vent!

[Jordan]

I agree at the frustration of people not recognizing the number of children. Tim and I have had 4 pregnancys/children - 1 earthly angel - Alex now 4 years old and 3 heavenly angels. We have only named Alex and Jordan (stillborn at 7 1/2 months along). Our other 2 were a tubal pregnancy 8 weeks along and a miscarriage at 5 weeks pregnant. I have a hard time answering the questions: How many children do you have? Or is Alex your only one?

Don't you love the comment - that situation you should just put behind you. Jordan was not a situation - she was our beautiful daughter. I have to admit I am starting to look at Jordan as a blessing with opportunity. How? Because of her and sharing her phographs and NILMDTS to others she is going to help some family (even if it is just one family) and give them something to cherish. I have talked to a friend in Ashland, WI and she is talking to a photographer in Ashland to see if he would provide this kind of service to others. If this photgrapher does this service it would be because of Jordan. Plus what a way to spread the word about NILMDTS.

Kim

[Sarah O'Neal]

I cannot imagine hiding the excitement of a new baby to a child, or sibling. SHame Shame Shame on her. I have a very clear image of this woman in my mind. Believe me lady.....if I could have hid my children from this pain I would have. Maybe the fact that my kids continue to get straight A's and laugh everyday is due to the fact that they got to express their feelings and well.....FEEL. They got to hold their sister, kiss her, and cry on her head.......Get an emotion.

[Dave Cisco]

that woman can run, but she cannot hide...

I'll bet she can't run 3 steps...55 years old and all dried up with acid thoughts.:)

[Diane Davis]

When I was 13 years old my 2 1/2 year old baby brother died. My parents never let us see them cry or have any emotion. When I was wracked with pain over his death, no one was there to hold me and after he was buried no one ever spoke of him again. 35 years later the pain overwhelms me because there was never a way to let it go. And I always wondered if my parents cared about him- or me.

So, Cheryl and the rest of you, please ignore this woman. She knows nothing of which she speaks. You are doing it right.

[Amber Schmidt]

The only thing I really can say about the whole comment is that the world was a very different place 20,30,40 years ago. No one talked about this stuff. Everyone was in the closet and the world was no better place for it. To each his own. Obviously we all support you Cheryl and NILMDTS. I think this is a great organization and have found very few people who can say otherwise. Just keep doing what you are doing!!!!! We love you for being so open with all of us and I think all of our children deserve to know when things happen. Knowledge is power.

[Heather Loehr]

I'm 35. My own mother had a series of miscarriages, and my older sister was a premature birth at 26 weeks - she lived for about two hours.

It was NEVER spoken about. I think that I can count on one hand the number of times she was spoken about, and each time was when my mother was in seriously depressed state. Later on, after my parents died, I found the only momentos they had of her. A birth certificate, with her inked perfect footprints, the death certificate, and the receipts from the memorial garden. I have often wondered all of our lives would have been different had my parents, my mother especially, been allowed to grieve and helped to heal.

Please don't let it get you down, Cheryl. What you have created here is extraordinary.

[calvin's mother]

Some people are very ignorant

[George]

The topic is old, but I'm new to the forum. I'm dumbfounded anyone would make a statement that sharing your grief with your children is selfish and that you should hide the death of sibling. He\She uses the credential that his\her mother is a medical professional as if that automatically makes he qualified to know what's best when dealing with death.

Many psychologist and grief counselors would disagree with such statments.

Based on the comments the person made, they are not as well adjusted as they would like to think.