I need the help of the dads please...

[Laine]

The mommies here have been my life line, literally keeping my head above water. Now I need to reach out to the daddies here. I need to understand how you think if you don't mind sharing. My baby girl Jennifer has been gone less than 3wks and her daddy is completely cold. He seems angry if I try to talk about her. He has shut himself off to me. We aren't married, we had even placed the relationship on the back burner and were focused on being awesome parents instead. But we had always been best friends, that always remained true. Now, that feels like it is gone too. Chris says that he has cried but that is between him and his maker. He wasn't at Jennifer's delivery, but he assured me last night that he did NOT blame me for her death. He said it in a way that he stressed it, leaving me wondering if he blames himself or if he feels guilty for not being there. His parents have been in since I left his house, so he has had no time alone. A good friend of mine said that she said that she thinks that as much as she knows that I want to help him, she thinks that I probably feel like I need to see him hurt too in order to feel like Jennifer ever meant anything to him. I think that she is right. In the three weeks since Jennifer's delivery, Chris and I have said some awful things to one another. He admitted last night that he didn't know what it was, but he was concerned that something would happen when I start crying. I have been honest and shared with him last week that I felt that my life was over. I don't want him to fix this, I know that he can't. God, how I wish that he could. I have told him this. He isn't being the man that he has always shown himself to be. I am confused. I am scared for both of us. I am afraid of hatred breeding between us. I asked him tonight if he needed me to hate him in order to make walking away from me, from 'this' (Jennifer's death) easier on him. He said no. But it doesn't feel that way. Chris says that he sees this different than he would if it were his son, because his son was not stillborn and Jennifer was. I told him that does not lessen that she is STILL his daughter. So I come to you daddies with what is left of my broken heart in my hand, begging you for some sort of understanding. At the three week mark, where were you? Was there anything that your baby's mother could have done to make it easier for you? I wish that right now I could trade places with Chris. Right now, I need to walls that he has put up, I need a small break from my reality and I believe that he needs to step out of denial. I am afraid that if Chris doesn't acknowledge Jennifer and her death, that he will forget her and then someday it will all come rushing back to him. I never want him to forget her. We were blessed, she chose us to be her parents. Please tell me how to help him. Right now, the only thing that I can think of to do is to back off. To walk away and I don't know how to do that. For me, that may be what puts me over the edge. I don't want that much from Chris. All I want is for him to hold my hand and allow me to mourn our baby girl. To let me cry if that is what I need. To let me tell him about her. To tell him about her beauty and share with him our time together since he was not there. Do you think that is to much? I don't want to hurt him, I just want to survive this too. And I want for both of us to come out on the other side of this without hating each other, to me that would be the ultimate in disrespect to our daughter.

Thank you for any help. I hope to get Chris to read your responses.

[spidey935]

I know you are going through a tough time. I lost a son 3 years ago and I have to say it doesn't get easier, you just learn how to cope with the pain. As a father I found myself lost and confused on how I should react. My wife and I had twins and my other son was still in a long road to recovery. I found for the next 3 months something else to concentrate on. I think finding a focal point will help get through the tough times. We have a box with my sons belongings in it and I still can't look at those things. I find myself feeling guilty a lot and for no reason to be. The guilt is normal and in time the feeling will still be there. I am not an open kind of guy but I found this site to be most helpfulin letting my emotions out. He could try writing down how he feels or just getting away with a couple of buddies to let out some of the frustration. This is a difficult time for both of you and maybe counciling will help. I wish I would have have some at the time but my other son was a priority over my needs. I wish you best of luck and pray for you. I hope I bring you some words that will help.

[Scott Hays]

I feel so bad that it's been ages since I've been here... Being a NILMDTS photographer and a father, it's been such a mix. My Lindsey will be 23 this year. If you notice, I don't use Linsey in the past tense. Never have and never will. But, if you look way way way back... heck I don't even know if Cheryl and the crew kept my original posts on here that far back, you'll see where I started to grow. For the first 19 years of Lindsey's life, I never really talked about her. I talked about her to myself. My wife never really wanted to talk about Lindsey, so I never talked about her, although I was dying to talk about her (we are opposite about where you are, but still the same basic story) So I just kind of kept it inside. When I came across NILMDTS, and met Cheryl through it, she asked me if I would get involved in the Fathers Room. I recluctently (sp?) did. I didn't think I really had anything to offer. So I started writing, and never stopped. I started to get everything out about Lindsey, and came to realize that I had a place to talk about her. So, what's this have to do with your husband? Well, not a lot, but here's where everything comes together.

As a photographer for this incredible organization, I have the opportunity to talk to parents all the time, when I give them the images of their wonderful children, or if they see me on the streets afterwards weeks or months afterwards. A lot of the fathers are right on board, sharing with their wives in their pain, crying with them, being right there. Unfortunately, there are to many that for whatever reason, won't share their pain. I don't know if they are pushing it into the back of their minds as if they don't think about it, that it didn't happen, that their child didn't exist? I don't know if this is anything close, but when I went into the Navy, the day I left to go to Denver, I was standing on our front porch, and my dad had walked out to his car. He stood on the drivers side of his car, and he opened the door, and leaned on the roof of the car, arms crossed. He said "Scott, I'm proud of you, and I love you." When I was in boot camp, he passed away of a heart attack. Well, I got to come home for his funeral. I didn't go to the viewing, because I wanted to remember him standing at his car, arms crossed, telling me that he was proud of me and that he loved me. That was it, I didn't want to remember him anyother way. Now, with Lindsey, she was born in 86. To have pictures taken at that time was unheard of. But the nurse that was with us, for whatever reason, she just had the urge to want to take pictures for us. She got her personal Polaroid camera, it had 5 pictures left in it. I don't know why, but I was immediately on board. lisa was a little apprehensive, but went a long with the idea. Now, to this day, I can still feel Lindsey in my arms, and feel her skin under my lips, and smell that baby smell from her. She was born on her due date. Perfect... it was a cord accident. She was moving around at about noon, and Lisa realized she wasn't moving at about 2. So, like I say, she was perfect. In my mind, that will never change. I was lucky enough to have pictures. But even without them, my minds pictures will never change that. What's my point? I think a lot of men are going to remember what we want to remember, and if they show any emotion at all, or talk about it, we are going to lose that mental picture. If we change that image at all, talk about it, we may lose what we remember. You will never convince me that what I feel, smell, etc... isn't Lindsey. I have two other children, but it is Lindsey. I know for a fact that I can still see my dad clear as a bell, and it has been about 28 years now. But I know that if I would have gone to that viewing, I would have lost that mental image of him standing at his car, and saying he loved me.

Is any of that ok? Is it the right thing? no... Has the fact that Lisa and I never really talked about Lindsey effected our marriage? I will tell you yes. What Lisa tell you... I don't know. 23 years later, she still won't really talk about it. Her mom still sends Lindsey a birthday card, and a little angel birthday gift of somesort every year. I always tell her thank you, and how much i appreciate it. I don't think Lisa has ever said thank you to her mom. I suppose it's one of those things where she just assumes that she appreciates it, but I really don't know how she feels. My mom always did until her Alzheimer's kicked in. So, we always recognize her. I would agree that counceling would be a great idea. The only problem, is that if he doesn't want to go, and you try to drag him, i have to be honest, if he doesn't want to go and talk about it, it is just going to **** him off. That's not to say don't mention it. Don't hound him about it though. You know how to approach him. Definately approach him, and your concerns. He'll probably tell you there's nothing wrong, but... he'll hopefully say that he'll go if you are that concerned (he'll probably say it sarcastically, which means he really thinks he has a problem, which means you are one step ahead of the game). So, definately bring it up. He'll fight like **** when you are there to say there isn't a problem with the death of your child, but a good therapist is going to see right through that as soon as she sees any anger come through.

So, knowing that I'm the guy most likely to make a short story long, ideally, all men should be sharing in the pain, and showing their wives that they are in pain as well, crying with them, and vice versa, it's not just a man thing, but it's not going to happen. Some day it's going to break. I just hope that he'll go to a therapist, or at least have an avenue of a friend that he will talk to. If he read this, he'd say I was crazy, and write me a note telling me that. You have to believe me when I tell you I'm not some pansy. I've been in rooms where fathers won't even look at their children, won't go into the room after their child has been born, to won't hardly even let the mother hold the child they are so excited about holding their child. I can't begin to tell you the number of NILMDTS sessions I've gone to over the last 3+ years. I thought I would become hardened to it. Today I did 3 sessions, and spent a total of 8+ hours in those 3 sessions. Maybe it was because I was tired, or maybe it's because I'm getting old, or maybe it's because these families are touching my heart more, but I find myself becoming weepy to the point where I don't know how much longer I can do it. There is just to much love in my heart to know that these young families have these incredible children that will always be in their lives. Your husband will always have your little one in his heart, don't worry about that. He won't forget Jennifer. He love's her as much as anyone in his life. There is hatred in his heart right now, he just doesn't know who it's towards, and that's what is tearing him apart. He is hating everyone right now. It's part of the grieving process, unfortunately, he isn't being able to process it. He's probably in deep depression right now (I'm not in the psych field, i just live in it), and he needs some help to come out. So, don't worry about him not loving her, or forgetting her. He'll never be able to do that, even if he says he did, or will. I'm a father, you never forget your little girl...

Whew... didn't expect all of that did you?

[Laine]

Thanks guys! It was great getting some dad input here. I think that it helped me to understand a little better. I wish that Chris (he and I were not married by the way), to come here. I think that reading any of the posts here would be beneficial to him. Reading what the moms say, would help him to understand me. Reading what the dads say, would help him to know that he is not alone. It is a very sad club to be a member of, but we are not alone. I just wish he didn't feel llike he had to be. I wish that there was someone locally that I knew to ask to talk to him, write him, email him, grab him and take him out for a beer.... anything just to get him to talk about this. Even in the world wide web, if there is an experienced dad here that is interested in touching base with Chris via email to share with him, I'd gladly give you his email. He just seems to think that this is how men are supposed to be. Cold and distant from the loss. SAD. Not only have we lost our baby girl, but we have lost our friendship it seems, as well.

Thanks!